Sasha Ivanov: We expect hundreds of EVM networks on Waves

In April, Waves developers launched the Units.Network testnet—a network for interoperability between Ethereum, BNB Chain, Solana and other blockchains.

We spoke with the company’s CEO and founder, Sasha Ivanov, about the new solution, the Power protocol, the Ethereum–Solana contest, and plans for the platform.

ForkLog: Waves’ story began in 2016 after a successful ICO. A year later the WAVES token rose to $16, and five years later it set a new all-time high of $50. We are in a bull market again. How will Waves delight investors and attract new users?

Sasha Ivanov: We are working on a new project called Units.Network, which will significantly expand the community. It is compatible with Ethereum and makes it easier to launch blockchains based on restaking WAVES.

Users of Units.Network interact with one another via the Waves network. It serves not as a first layer, but as a base—layer zero (L0).

This architecture speeds up blockchain development and provides reliable links between them—conditions necessary for mass Web3 adoption.

ForkLog: How does this approach differ from Waves’ concept circa 2016? Has your vision of the project changed?

Sasha: It has not, but I look differently at the market and the problems the team faces.

I believe it is time to return blockchain to its roots: decentralisation and new models of social interaction based on open protocols.

The Waves ecosystem runs on Power—a protocol for creating DAOs. It allows flexible governance mechanisms and incentivises participants who act for the good of the community.

The Units.Network mainnet launch is planned for June–July 2024. Together with Power, it will form the core that supports the platform’s development for many years to come.

We expect to see hundreds of EVM networks on Waves. Participants in the very first—Unit0—will use its native token to govern the Units.Network DAO.

The Units.Network testnet is already live: users can get acquainted with the product and later take part in activities and receive rewards. A staking campaign will follow: Waves will credit Units tokens for providing liquidity in the network.

ForkLog: After the new ATH came a long bear market. During it you accused Alameda Research of manipulating the WAVES token and faced sharp criticism after the depegging of Neutrino USD (USDN) from the dollar. How did the project cope with these difficulties?

Sasha: The past two years were very difficult. But our problems pale beside what is happening in the world.

The USDN situation, and similar stablecoins, showed that a market-based stabilisation model is unreliable and vulnerable to attack. It works 99% of the time, but the unforeseen 1% can destroy the system.

But with Waves we proved that in crises you can rely on a DAO. Because of the USDN issues and liquidity stuck in the lending protocol on Waves and Waves.exchange, we had no way to finance the development of key ecosystem products centrally.

In 2022 the platform became fully decentralised: all teams receive funding through the Waves DAO.

ForkLog: How did you react to the collapse of Alameda Research and FTX?

Sasha: It was a big surprise. The FTX collapse opened my eyes to risks in the Western financial system that I had tended to underestimate. It also changed my attitude to the crypto market and what I would like to achieve in it.

ForkLog: Sam Bankman-Fried, who called your statements “a poorly concocted conspiracy theory,” was sentenced to 25 years in prison. How do you assess this sentence?

Sasha: I would rather not comment. The main lesson is to reduce risks and prepare for any turn of events. We need to move forward and build new products.

ForkLog: Then let’s talk about Solana. Does it have a chance to overtake Ethereum by market capitalisation?

Sasha: I view Solana positively. It offers an alternative to Ethereum’s scaling by parallelising computation while preserving network consensus.

Such networks will grow and develop. At the same time Ethereum has a much larger community of developers and researchers. In the coming years it will remain the industry leader.

ForkLog: How do you assess Ethereum’s approach to scaling?

Sasha: Positively, because they are doing something similar to Units.Network: they plan to unite L2 solutions and the main chain into an ecosystem based on ETH restaking. Second-layer solutions will become Ethereum’s “shards.”

We are aiming at the same goal—an ecosystem that rests on the economic incentives of a powerful L1 and uses L2s for decentralisation. The difference is that Ethereum will take several years to get there. 

ForkLog: Back in 2015 you wrote an article for ForkLog titled “Comparison of Proof-of-Work and Proof-of-Stake”, where you argued: “Many cryptocurrencies have a PoW stage, when the currency is issued by paying miners with new coins, and a PoS stage that begins after the entire currency has been issued.” It seems that new projects go straight to PoS, and Ethereum became an exception. Has that approach lost its relevance?

Sasha: Proof-of-Stake has won out as the more efficient algorithm. That was obvious already in 2015. The only advantage of Proof-of-Work is a more transparent initial token distribution.

Decentralising AI may give PoW a new impetus, but we are unlikely to see new major blockchains based on it. Bitcoin will remain on PoW.

ForkLog: Could it switch to Proof-of-Stake in 2140, when the last satoshi is mined?

Sasha: The Bitcoin community is focusing on L2 solutions and creating token formats such as BRC-20. They should increase transaction fees and give miners substantial income beyond the block reward.

I am sure that in 5–10 years we will see qualitatively new technologies in crypto. What will happen in 100 years, nobody knows.

ForkLog: What are you watching now? Do you invest in anything?

Sasha: I do not invest. I believe one should focus on the projects one is directly involved in, so I hold only WAVES.

I am interested in scaling, zero-knowledge technologies and new approaches to DAOs. Unfortunately, on the latter almost nothing is happening right now.